The following is a selection of tips & comments from over the past year or so. The messages are more or less as they appeared originally, though I have taken the liberty of editing out some of the irrelevant byplay. Where they are useful parts of the originating questions are included italicized & in (brackets). Editor’s notes within messages are enclosed in <brackets>.
HALYARD MATERIAL
Phil (2000)
Uses for vectrus:
- jib halyard (splice to first block or shackle in your purchase system, then use dacron or polyester for your 12:1 to the cleat)
Henry (Aug. 11, 2000
I would use Yales Vectrus 12 (Vectran( in 1/8" for both the halyard and the primary cascade. I would use the same as your luff wire. The vectran has better stretch numbers (zero) and no creep. It is comparable in price and can be had from Layline or APS. You can search those on the web and find out prices (I think Layline is Layline.com).
G2 Aug. 11, 2000
PBO monster Jan. 15, 2001
(Getting pretty daring and using 1/8" Pobon for my primary rig tension. 4000 lb working load - WooHoo! But I wonder what its chafe resistance is... that's the real tradeoff of hitech line over wire.)
PBO is great but be carefull....It breaks down in VISIBLE light not just UV. Which means it breaks down on the shelf. Not to say its bad but be sure not to trust it too much too long..
HALYARD PURCHASE
Rick Clift (2000)
There are various methods people use to tension the rig on Fireballs, including Muscle Boxes. Any equipment that can apply sufficient tension to the rig can be used (as long as it is not hydraulic). Some boats use 6:1 Boxes, coupled with 2:1 or 4:1 whips, others use multi-purchase rigs, without the self contained muscle box, it really is up to what you have room for, and how much money you want to spend. Regardless of the choice of tensioning device used, it should be readily adjustable, to you can vary the rig tension as the wind and water conditions change during a race.
Phil Locker (2000)
While I was playing in the garage this weekend, I realized that the jib halyard setup might not make much sense (it’s still rigged the way it was when we bought the boat). The halyard exits the mast, then is shackled to a line that goes down to a turning block near the mast step and then to a set of triple-blocks and a 2:1 cascade along the centreboard trunk (total 12:1). It terminates along the spine of the boat aft of the centreboard trunk. It seems to me that pulling on a lot of tension is going to try to also pull more rocker into the hull and bind/twist the centreboard trunk (the centreboard DOES sometimes bind in the trunk when we've pulled on 450 lbs of tension - measured on the shrouds).
I'd like a nice compact system near the mast, that is flexible enough for a good range of mast rake, but don't particularily want to go to a Harken Magic Box.
Bob Rose (2000)
When I purchased a new mast, I switched the jib halyard system to make it a 2:1 system before the halyard enters the mast on the jib side. The head of the jib attaches to a sheave and one end of the halyard attaches to the mast just above where the halyard normally enters the mast.
When the halyard exits the mast into the cockpit, you already have a 2:1 mechanical advantage. Therefore you don't need as much tension along the centreboard and it's easier on the hull.( Also easier to add rig tension.)
The disadvantages are: that to attach the jib to the sheave, it's about 8 feet in the air so you have to stand on the thwart to reach; also the jib halyard needs to be much longer because you have twice as much wire in front of the mast; and with a 2:1 advantage in the cockpit,you pull twice as much line to put on the rig tension. But once you get used to it, it works like a charm. No more gritting of the teeth as you crank on the tension and listen to the boat groan in agony. Most of the forces are vertical in the mast which doesn't stress the boat. Hope this may be of some help.
Mark Miller (2000)
muscle or magic box as I know them as, a multi-purchase tension devise, to set rig tension. still a lot in use today, but more recent boats I have seen have a more simple floating (twin 3 block) system installed IE: A magic box without the box either mounted on the foredeck area or in the cockpit area around the center board trunk. Without the box, less weight. Also boxes bind and have friction that free blocks don't have. check out an ACME LAB'S boat and rig set up or ask Mr. Mc Ray. bear in mind that any system works, but how adjustable and user friendly it is is probably what you are trying to achieve. And weight might be a concern, a lot of variables to consider....
Michael Sanderson (2000)
I have a magic box on my rig and I don't like it at all. It doesn't have enough range, and as Mark previously mentioned friction is an issue. It is nice and clean, but for me that benefit doesn't outweigh the drawbacks.
Magic Box opinions… (Aug. 2000)
Get rid of it. Don't replace it. They were a nice concept, but they in fact develop more friction than any block system.
The best thing is to replace the magic box with a tackle. Easy to make, easy to maintain and never jams! And cheaper...
Check the inside, it could be bent in somewhere. could be a frayed piece of line stuck on a sheave. If everything checks out soak it with McLube, that stuff is amazing.
Ian (Aug. 10, 2000)
As a crew in a boat where the jib halyard tension is fed back to the c/b console I've never managed to accidentally catch this yet (but there's still time :-) On our boat the halyard comes out of the mast about 8" above the gate, connects with a hook to another halyard which then runs through several million blocks to give us some obscure purchase...
Henry (Aug. 10, 2000)
Echo. Exit to a hook. There should be a 2:1 or 3:1 behind the mast and then turn it. Use wire blocks for the small purchase. Then cascade along the C/B case. Just for the record: McLube IS amazing stuff. However, IT IS NOT a penetrant. It does not free up old parts. You must first wash all the salt and grime out, steel wool if nec., and THEN use the McLube. However, the Magic box has a design flaw that you may be able to fix. The pin in the moving block system and the bushings and bearing which hold it together (using a pair of C clamps on either outside end) can be replaced. Most often the pin is bent or the bushings are worn causing one side to go out of allignment with the other, causing it to bind. The whole set can be gotten though Harken if you call there and speak to a cust. serv. rep. Should cost about 5$ plus ship/handle.
PS- even if you do the repair the things still suck.
Ian (Aug. 10, 2000)
(Jib halyard fed through bottom of mast)
Well you could put in a 2:1 at the top of the jib, you don't say if you're using a wire or spectra halyard, if it's spectra or some such you could then feed it back through a further cascade system...
Henry (Aug. 11, 2000
Ian is well on to something, although nothing new across the pond. You get yourself a nice T-ball eye and splice your halyard to it. Then, you attach a wire block to the head of the jib. It goes down from the t-ball at the black band, through the wire block at the head of the jib, and then into the mast at your "regular" exit block into the mast. It then exits at the back of the mast. I would scope the spectra and splice it so your loop just pops out once you have hoisted the jib by hand using a "mouse" halyard (something small)Then you attach a second 2:1 using a wire block with a hook to go through the splice. One side of the cascade is attached to the mast base, the other goes to a turning block which then leads back along the truck. This gives you 4:1 before the turn, so the turning block has less than 250lbs on it even at max point load. Then, a 4:1 or 6:1 will cascade your system to 16:1 or 24:1- far more than your magic box ever got. The advantage is not to pull on some obscene amount of rig tension. It is to provide finer adjustment. The whole idea is to keep the rig in column until the crew is fully out on the trap and then begin to pull on or release little bits of halyard to depower by allowing the leeward shroud to go slack- thus allowing lateral bend in the mast.
The whole idea of the 2:1 before the halyard enters the mast is to reduce mast compression and the ill effects of a tensioned line inside the mast which is desperately trying to stay straight as the mast bends.
There are literally thousands of ways to skin this cat. Looks at the blocks in your box, get some string and make it happen- you only get better on the water!!!
G2 (Aug. 11, 2000)
da vinci (Mar. 11, 2001)
<Tension on your jib halyard> really depends on how hard you pull at the working end to get this tension load. Using a 10-1 purchase, and assuming all your blocks are running free and that none of the attachments will pull out, in order to load up about 300 lbs tension, you would have to exert 30 to 40 lbs load on the rope you are pulling (taking into account frictional losses, etc). As a suggestion, why not add a 2:1 whip on the end of your 10:1 purchase. This would reduce the force needed to load up the system by about half, and still allow you to load up your rig. (Keep in mind though, that by doing this, you will have to move blocks twice the distance to make up the same travel at the jib halyard attachment.)
The Phantom Dic (Mar. 12, 2001)
16:1 is ideal. achieved by a 2:1 cascade followed by a Harken 16mm triple and triple with becket system. Light clean lots of mec. advantage and less string. 10:1 not enough 20:1 WAY TOO MUCH!!!
The Phantom (Mar. 12, 2001)
Sounds like friction may be a bigger issue here then purchase. It is quite possible for a 20:1 to be harder to pull then a 10:1. Just look at 16mm triples vs. the old magic boxes. Try to shoot for 16:1 but most of all make sure everything runs clean as possible. Then consider moving into the 21st century and going external with the whole thing. Check out Boomer, Risky, American Psycho (Rosemary) and I’m pretty sure more then a few canadia types have this system.
ch (Mar. 13, 2001)
One way to reduce a lot of friction and tension on your halyard and mast is to attach the halyard to the head of the jib with a 2:1 purchase, rather than directly with a shackle. Dead end the halyard just below/above the exit block at the hounds and then run it through a small floating block that has a tail attached to it that you shackle to the head of the jib. Your halyard in the mast is now under half the load it was before and you only need 8:1 in the cockpit or bottom of the mast to get 16:1 total. Your mast will also respond better to bending controls such as your mast ram etc, because is only under half the load it was with a single part halyard. Only drawback I've experienced is that you can only drop the halyard about halfway to deck before block at bottom is up against exit block, so is a real stretch to reach halyard when attaching or removing jib. Otherwise, works fine. Anybody else use this system???
Henry (Mar. 26, 2001)
Lets do some math here guys...
2:1 cascade
triple + triple with becket = 7:1
2x7=14
that's 14:1
Thats what I've got, and get as much rig as I want to. 10:1 will work, but more purchase equals more fine tune.
SHEETS
Robin (Oct. 25, 2000)
Jib. 6-8mm. 7m long.
SHEET FAIRLEAD SYSTEM
Dennis Clarke (2000)
The three holes on six inch centers on either side of the mast at the back edge of the foredeck would have been to mount tracks, probably Ronstan RF363 5/8" s/s track. Each track would have carried a slide equipt with a spring loaded stop and either a Swiveling Dead Eye (Ronstan RF55) or Fairlead (Ronstan RF372).
On the each side deck would be mounted a plain, or ratcheting, turning or cheek block. (The terminology depends upon the flavour of English you favour) Inboard of the turning block would be a cam cleat.
The jib sheet would be lead down through the fairlead, out to and round the turning block, back across the cockpit to the crew. The cam cleat would be used as required.
Upwind the fairlead would be positioned inboard for gentle breezes and further out for heavier winds. For reaching at would be placed outboard.
It is an uncomplicated arrangement and works for all but the most exacting racing demands. One further note. The turning blocks should have a wedge between the block and the deck to provide a smooth exit for the jib lead to the crew on the wire.
Mark Miller (2000)
the old original <fairlead> system was on the deck by the mast but trying to create the proper jib sail twist off that has become necessary for speed and control with regards to the evolution of the BALL makes it a better by design to relocate them to inside the cockpit. jib bars are a good alternative and also give added support to the center board trunk. there are also floating systems that have been designed. I am using one of these with my USA 8362 woody revamp. my reasoning is a weight issue, but all systems work. it just depends what level of performance you want. a 98 issue of the firezone decribed several the best with diagrams.
Richard Leeds (2000)
The older one (6436) has track-mounted fairleads on the aft edge of the foredeck, while the newer (11003) has blocks attached to a rope by the centreboard case (adjustment by a jamming cleat) and then on to another block/fairlead and cleat on the thwart.
The point of all this is that each system uses a different design of jib, so a newer jib won't set properly on the older deck-sheeted arrangement. If you don't have anything there now, I'd suggest you go for cockpit sheeting (or get an old-style jib custom made :-) ).
George Stedman (2000)
the old fore and aft tracks don't give you any inboard-outboard which is a help in handling different wind strengths. contacting phil locker as per above is a good idea because he wrote a great article with sketches as i remember on the layout options
George Stedman (2000)
In out as well as up down is what it amounts to. Jib fairlead up and down is the same as fore and aft and controls leach tension. A tell tale on the jib leach (1/3 from the top?) should flow most of the time. The sideways motion adjusts for wind strength. In wind when your main is off the centerline you need to open the slot by shifting the jib fairlead outboard.
Bob Rose (2000)
For a simple but fairly versatile jib fairlead system, I've got two sets of tracks mounted in parallel on the foredeck on each side. The 1st set is 80 mm out from the centre of the mast location and the 2nd set is 30 mm farther yet. I can adjust the fairlead in the fore and aft position on either track as well as reasonable in and out positioning by switching tracks. I don't have a vertical adjustment but it doesn't often seem to be a problem. It's simple because I can move the car back or forward or even between tracks in a second or two and I don't have all the bells and whistles of a more complicated fully adjustable fairlead system. The only disadvantage is that the weight of four steel tracks is significant but my boat is light to begin with so it's not a problem for me. Hope this helps you.
Brian Pomeroy (2000)
I am rigging the jib sheets in a manner similar to one that I saw in a sailing world article on Fireballs, (Aug. 1992) There are travelers on either side of the centreboard trunk, running parallel to the centreline. on each of these, there are two blocks. A line travels from a cleat, through one block, through the base of a floating block and then back through the other block on the traveler, and is deadended at the other end of the track. The jib sheet goes through the floating block and then to a cleat mounted on the leeward inside edge of the cockpit.
Malcolm Osborne (2000)
My (also old) boat has a ‘floating' block for the jib sheet attached to a short line which is tied to a centreboard case stiffener going across the front of the cockpit. On shore this can be adjusted slightly (adjusting the knot). The sheet then goes round a turning block on the deck before passing into the cam cleat.
SHEET/TACK ATTACHMENT
Henry (March 2000)
For my jib sheets I use a 25' sheet hitched in the middle. Then, I have a six inch piece of tiny spectra with a twing ball fitted to the end. To tie the jib sheet on fold the thin line behind the twing ball into a loop and pass through the clew of the jib. Then, pass the twing ball through the loop and tension. It holds for ever and ever, and to untie you simply pull on the ball which exposes the loop again, pass the ball back through the loop and it is untied. I have used this since 1997 and have never had it come undone, on shore or water, and it makes rigging lickity split. I also use this on my spin halyard, main halyard, and a similar knot on my spin sheets. We work hard at being able to rig or unrig comfortably in under 10 minutes.
Phil (March 2000)
Here's a tip on the tip: If using this system on your main halyard, be careful to round the edges of the mainsail headboard where the rope passes through. If not, chafe will get you some day and down will come your mainsail!
JIB CUNNINGHAM
Rick Apr. 19, 2001
If the jib is toast, don't even bother trying to alter the shape by loading up the luff. Better to get a new (or newer) jib and start from there. Most current jibs are set up loose on a luff wire, so one can apply some small amount of luff tension to "fine tune" the entry of the sail. Trying to do anything more than this is a waste of time.