The following is a selection of tips & comments from over the past year or so. The messages are more or less as they appeared originally, though I have taken the liberty of editing out some of the irrelevant byplay. Where they are useful parts of the originating questions are included italicized & in (brackets). Editor’s notes within messages are enclosed in <brackets>.

 

MISC.

Phil Locker (2000)

Re: pulleys at the bottom of the mast. Some do, and some don't. Some boats will bring the halyards out around pulleys at the bottom of the mast. More common is to bring them out through slots in the side of the mast. Either way works well - just make sure all the lines lead fair to their respective blocks and cleats in the boat.

NEW MASTS…

Henry (Mar. 28, 2001)

If your old masts are proctors regardless of the section you may be better off re-rigging them, as new masts are about $1200. Dave White remains the only one to get them lately, ooo- and Mark Matthews too. But I dunno if Mark can get more, you will have to check with him.

As for booms, I am afriad it is 1-800-call-a-pomme. Dave or Mark should be able to help to sort you out.

Phil (Mar. 29, 2001)

There is NO domestic manufacturer of Fireball spars. The choices are limited to Proctor (Britain) and Super Spar (somewhere in Europe, I'm afraid I'm ignorant of where). To make matters worse, I'm not aware of any distributor in North America actually importing and stocking these items.

And this is why there is also very little available in used spars - we sail 'em until they break. Its an expensive proposition to get your hands on a new mast simply for the sake of upgrading your equipment.

Dave White (Mar. 29, 2001)

Here is what we did last year and you can take it from there. We ordered two masts, Proctor Stratus II's and two booms rigged with de-rakers for $2,200 from Ian Pinnell. We used a Visa card to pay for them and they were shipped to us in about four to six weeks. When the masts came in we placed the entire package in overhead storage as we did not need them right away and when we went to get them out it was discovered they were bent. Our problem ended up being that we waited until we needed the masts and booms before inspecting them for damage. After 15 days the carrier is no longer responsible for damages and there isn't much anyone can do to correct the situation. On top of that although the price looks good at $1,100.00 per mast and boom we did not figure the import taxes and the overland shipping it would take to get the masts from New York to Pittsburgh via a truck. The total cost of that bill was around $500.00. and we had problems as the pieces were damaged and our school did not want to pay for damaged goods but we were somewhat to fault as we did not inspect the items right away. During the summer I talked to APS in Annapolis and they informed me they get their Proctor products from Dave Ullman in California and suggested I ask them about future purchases. Dave informed me he has Proctor Epslawn sections which are similar to the Stratus II sections but are stiffer sections and according to him that is what the west coast sailors are using. He said he could get the Stratus II sections in but we would have to wait several months to get them. The advantage with going with Dave is we avoid the duty taxes and the hassels of dealing with the government and those goofy clearing houses. The down side is Dave does all that and he passes the cost of to the customer. No matter which way you go the masts can be had and If you want Andrew Davies can supply you with a list of suppliers from England who will sell you Proctor products but you will have to deal with buying something with US dollars and the conversion factor of converting US dollars to British pounds come to play and there is the problem of dealing with the customs and duty procedures and the final delivery of the item to wherever it is going. All this can be costly. Hope this helps. We will be getting our next mast from Dave Ullman and not be going through a British company just for the ease of dealing with a US supplier.

Dave White (Apr. 2, 2001)

(Do you have a way to get in touch with Dave Ullman?)

I had the number but misplaced it. How I got was I called Annapolis Performance Sailing 1-800-729-9767. They order all their proctor spinnaker poles that they sell from Dave and they gave me his 800 number. He even sent me a catalog but as I said I misplaced this stuff and I will just make a couple of calls to get the stuff sent to me again. Hope this helps.

BENT MASTS

Rick Clift (2000)

(…a Super Spars M7 mast with a 'slight' bend from side to side. It starts just above the spreaders and is about 1 inch/25 mm out at the top)

If the mast is not "kinked", then it might be salvageable by "gently" trying to straighten it up. This can be done by putting the mast where the bend starts between a couple of firm, but well padded supports, and then using the lever principle to encourage it back into place. One has to proceed very slowly, so as not to induce a kink in the mast. It likely won't come back to dead straight, but might be good enough for most club sailing. If the price is right for the mast as it is, go for it. (For anyone old enough to remember, there was a cartoon in an old Proctor Spars handbook about straightening masts up, using and elephant and a couple of trees!)

Vincent Horey (2000)

Being a past expert on bent masts and straighten them, here are two ways i have used in the past, put the mast between two poles and bend back slowly. the problem with this way is the mast is always weak towards the bend, and will want to keep bending back. the best way is to drop the pins on the shroud plates opposite the bend by two holes, when the rig tension is put on the mast should be straight. Have Fun.

Erich Moser (2000)

We used trailer ratchet straps to bend M7 Masts back. We put the mast against a tyre (solid but not to hard) and pulled slowly with the straps. You have to do this repeatedly and slow avoiding any bumps!!! As you will never get it back bang straight, use different holes for the shrouds and maybe you have to pull the mast on one side at the mast gate. Check with full rig tension on the sideways bend looking from the gooseneck to the top. It's most important that this is straight. I don't know what side effects bending back a mast have. You won't probably become a World champion with that, but if worried about you have to buy new gear Cheers, have fun.

SPREADER LOCATION

David (Mar. 21, 2001)

I never realized that spreader height was not prescribed by the class rules. Makes sense though, as the boat originally had none.

I checked through my files and found a Proctor Canada shop drawing that provides all the dimensions for a Fireball mast fit-up (irregardless of section). The centre of the spreader bracket should be located at 3100 mm above the top of the mast tenon. Make sure you are really clear on what is meant by 'top of tenon' before you start drilling.

With typical luck, the old holes will be too close to the desired location for the new holes. In this case you can sleeve the mast in this area.

Rick (Mar. 22, 2001)

As with many other items related to the Fireball rig, there is no magic number for the height of the spreaders on the mast. Some of the sailmakers and spar builders will indicate a preferred location for the spreaders, but this is only a general location. When looking at what the spreaders do, they act as a lever point for control of the mast. The height of the spreaders, in association with the length and angle all effect how the mast will bend while sailing. For general terms, the lower the spreaders are on a mast, the stiffer the bottom of the mast and the more it wil fall off to leeward at the top. The higher the spreaders are, the more control you have over the upper part of the mast, and the less over the lower part.

As a general rule, spreader location can be determined using one of the following:

- locate them at 62.5% of the distance between the deck and the hounds (measuring up from the deck)

- locate the spreaders at the point of maximum deflection of the mast (which should be between 55% and 65% of the first distance.

- take the mainsail you are going to use, lay it on the ground, fold the luff over so you have a straight leading edge and find the point of maximum luff curve. The spreaders should be attached at this point on the mast.

Obviously, this last method will change depending upon which sail cut you are using. Since most of us don't have separate sail/mast combinations, we, by necessity end up with a compromise location for the spreaders.

In general, this is not really detrimental, since we have a number of other adjustments that can be made to alter the amount of bend on the mast.

Finally, one word of caution, from an engineering standpoint, it is not a good idea to start moving your spreaders up and down the mast (and by default, drilling holes in the mast tube to attach the spreader bracket.)The more holes that are put into the mast in the area of the spreader bracket is an open invitation to pre-mature mast failure.

SPREADERS – ENLARGED RIVET HOLES

Steph (May 21, 2001)

You can move the spreaders up. Measure from the point at the mast's bottom where it rests in the foot (top of tenon),you can go for up to 3100mm. On my old 1968 mast I was able to move the spreaders up 14".

Rick (May 21, 2001)

Another option would be to get an external sleeve to go around the mast at the spreader location point. If the sleeve is long enough (at least 6-8") there should be enough support to attach the spreaders and not further weaken the mast. Stef's suggestion of moving the spreaders will work as well, just make sure you don't relocate the spreaders to a new location that was close (within 2-3") of the previous location. Too many holes in the mast at that location is good way of breaking a mast. (But then, if you have your insurance paid up, it might be a good way to get a new stick out of the deal!)

Phil (Mar. 21, 2001)

Look at item PRO32 in the Annapolis Performance Sailing catelogue - its a collar that can be used where the spreaders attach. So it will help you out if you need to move the spreaders. I believe it also has the benefit of reducing pinching of the section under loading from the spreaders.

KISS (May 22, 2001)

Why not keep it simple and just put a larger diameter rivet back in the old hole. There should be four rivets holding the spreaders in place and one loose one won't make any difference as the load is all in compression anyway.

KISS ME AGAIN (May 22, 2001)

You could also put a washer behind the larger rivet going into the same hole (provided you can get behind the offending location) to add some additional support to the rivet when it expands prior to the "pop".

Ben D. Over (May 23, 2001)

(… put a big round washer through a small hole? Sounds kinda tricky.)

Yeah, not even vaseline will help you with that one. Maybe if you somehow lower the washer through the mast... pretty tricky operation requiring several bubbly beverages.

Or just fill the hole with JB Weld, let it harden, and redrill for the new rivet.

Rick (May 23, 2001)

What I was thinking about was using a Proctor mast fitting called a "Chafe Collar" that is sometimes used at the mast partners to strengthen the mast. Check out the US Proctor supplier, who might be able to help source this part. Contact: Proctor Masts & Rigging in California. Phone 946-673-7817 or e-mail at proctormast@earthlink.net

Robert Thompson (Mar. 25, 2001)

All of the above are useful. The 1980's era Leitch and McBride mainsail was cut to take a lot of lower mast bend but needed a fairly straight mast above the spreaders to keep the leech from opening too much. If the mast was too bendy at the top pointing ability was lost as vang was applied. The spreaders were a foot higher than the usual (Proctor) position and the English 'Ballers commented that the setup gave inadequate "gust response" - the tip would not fall off with the puff and the boat would heel and slow down before the sheet could be eased. I was able to see this when I switched to a Superspar M3- I could watch the tip of the mast work as puffs and waves were encountered (while practicing, of course.) Most of the mains we get now have a fairly smooth luff curve and need the top of the mast to bend aft enough to open the top of the sail at the top batten, especially in light air. The setup guides are only guides, and must be adapted for crew weight, mast stiffness ( most masts vary a little as the dies wear in production - they are not exact duplicates.) Start with the recommendations, then go sailing, preferably with a good tuning partner. I try not to put too many holes in the mast but have not had any real trouble at the spreaders- most mast breakage is at the deck or gooseneck, or is caused by a spreader bending. I have dented the section if the inboard end of the spreader contacts the mast and loads it.

SHROUDS

Phil Locker (2000)

(Shroud length adjustment)

I've used 6:1 in the past (a pair of Harken triple microblocks) - you have to hang a V-cleat from the becket of the upper triple block. The drawback to this system is getting the two sides exactly symmetrical. As well, fireball class rules specify that the shrouds must terminate at the chainplates or some such thing - the bottom line is that you can't bring the adjusting lines into the cockpit to cleat them - the cleat must be integral with the set of blocks that you use. On my current boat I just went back to chainplates (well, the easily adjustable 'de-raker' style). Simple is good. I believe Henry McCray uses an 8:1 arrangement - a wire single-block cascading to a pair of double-blocks. Be sure that all the lines, blocks, and cleats are up to the high working loads that the rig will see (the 600 pound static rig tension that you might load the rig up to is only the starting point - what's the load on the shroud when you get hit by a really big puff?)

SHROUD ATTACHMENT AT HOUNDS

Ch (Feb. 2001)

I have an older Proctor D mast. The shrouds and trapeze wires are attached at the hounds by means of a triangular shaped s/s plate on each side of a large rivet through the mast. This is heavy and creates windage and I 'd like to move the connections inside the mast, perhaps by means of a riveted loop around the rivet. Has anybody else tried this. Also, I would have to drill out the old rivet and don't know where I could get a new one. Any suggestions.

Fidel Castro (Feb. 24, 2001)

I have an older BETA mast that has lots of windage and if this is your worry you need to be out sailing more and worrying less.....when you cut away your s/s tube, use a nice stainless bolt....you'll never know the difference......TRUST ME. You should be able to figure out who this is.....Yours, the tooth fairy.

Rick (Feb. 24, 2001)

  1. Proctor used to sell masts with internal hounds for both the shrouds and trap wires. They accomplished this by replacing the set up you have on your mast with a stainless pin press fitted into the mast. The shrouds and trap wires were looped over the pin inside the mast, and came through the mast in drilled holes below the pin. There were many problems with this set up. If you wanted to change shrouds for any reason, you had to perform major surgery to get the old ones out, usually by cutting the wires and pulling them through the holes. Plus, in a saltwater environment, the close proximity of the stainless and aluminum made a nice corrosion cell up the mast, that resulted in the exit holes gradually being eroded away. Proctor stopped using this set up a number of years ago.
  2. If you want to change the setup on your mast, why not go to the stainless J hooks used on most modern masts? You should be able to retro-fit the sockets for the J hooks in your mast, and then get some new shrouds with hooks swaged onto the ends. Neat, clean and easy to rig and de-rig. (Plus you can go with high tech rope instead of wire for the trapeze).

Phil (Feb. 26, 2001)

( How are the trap lines attached to the mast if you use line rather than wire? Can you get J hooks with an eye in them?)

Yup. You can actually find a really cool number that swages on to your shroud and in addition has a little loop on it that you can splice a vectrus/spectron/technora line to for the trapeze.

MAST RAM

Malcolm Osborne (2000)

As a cheaper substitute for a complicated strut and associated adjustment systems, a simple chock forward of the mast in the deck gate should suffice (until you start getting more ambitious / adventurous. The chock should be wide enough so as to prevent the mast from bending forward in light to medium wind. A bit of mast bend flattens the main, so a thinner chock could be used in heavy wind (also depending on crew weight).

TRAPEZE

Mike McEvoy (2000)

(trapeze adjustment configuration)

There is a clam cleat that you can but that has a small roller in it. The Cleat is shackled to the end of the trapeze below the handle. A piece of line is dead ended on the cleat and runs down through the dogbone which also has a block on it. It then goes up through the roller on the cleat and is tied off. You need a piece of shock cord attached to the dogbone at some point and run down through the cockpit (in front of the mast or along the edges) and to the dogbone on the other side. Hope this helps.

Phil (2000)

Vectrus 12 splices really easily. Great for trap lines too - mine are 2 years old and look like they've got another year left in them.

G2 (2000)

Vectran (Vec) 12 1/8 inch. It is stronger than wire and doesn't stretch like spectra. The two shops can be found at www.apsltd.com or www.layline.com....... I think

G3 (2000)

  1. When rigging vectrus trapeze lines, if you use 1/8" vectrus it will work really well with a "T" type trapeze handle. Run the vectrus through the T from the top, eye-splice it to a 'racing junior' cleat (make the splice by passing it through itself 3 times then bury 6" of tail) then if you stretch it really tight you will just be able to slide the T-handle down over the splice. This will very firmly secure it. Otherwise with vectrus sometimes its wise to whip the eyesplice so it won't come undone when the line is slack.
  2. Your trapeze adjusting lines can be attached to the racing junior cleat just by passing through the lower screw hole and tieing with a stopper knot. But check occasionally for chafe! I've had one wear all the way through, and you don't see it happening.
  3. Use climbing rope (with a little stretch) for your adjusting lines, its kind to the crew's back.

G2 (July 10, 2000)

<Spectra is> perfectly legal but do yourself a favor and use a fiber worthy of the job. Vectran (aka vec 12) or Technora (aka tech 12) are not really any more expensive but work 100 times better. I use 1/8 vec twelve on both my 49er and fireball trap wires and they last forever and a day...plus they are light as hell. Backsplicing them is also key...this process is not hard… instead of tying a knot tuck the tail inside the trap wire about 6 inches